Describe yourself

[gspina]

I still take the stance that Taiwan should be independent from mainland China.

Much like expatben stated Taiwan broke away from the mainland during a revolution.

Baasically what I was pointing out with Pakistan and India, is that Pakistan was formed because of cultural, religious and idelogical reasons. Regardless of what was in the ground or how the economy was in either place.

[expatben]

I think Pakistan should have been established I also want Tibet to be its own country on the same grounds as Pakistan, that and it was taken over by China.

[TheJake]

[gspina]

I agree with you completelly.

I feel that Taiwan should be recognized as its own country. I dont feel that they should fold to the mainland in order to keep peace. The economy of Taiwan was build without the help of China, therefor China's interest is not in protecting an economy but in gaining one.

The argument of Pakistan was in response to chelseafc05 stating that a country has the right to take over a country/renegade state in order to protect its economic interest regarless of cultural or ideological difference. I was not stating that pakistan should not have been formed. I believe it should have.

I feel that those that have differences religious or other, should be free to break away from the mother country if it is in the best interest of that country. In the example of Taiwan I would have to say it is definatly in the best interest of Taiwan to be separate from China, since many of its inhabitants fled to the country to avoid prosecution from the mainland chineese government.

[chelseafc05]

a might i add what a wonderul job we have done hijacking this thread

[expatben]

all round!

[TimmyJames1976]

Originally posted by chelseafc05@Oct 30 2005, 01:52 AM
a might i add what a wonderul job we have done hijacking this thread

[snapback]83635[/snapback]

yes yes.....my bad

[omisan]

If California could split off and form its own country, I'd be ecstatic. Unfortunately, we'd sooner be nuked than allowed to secede. The biggest economy in the world losing a component that in and of itself is the 7th biggest economy in the world... ain't never gonna happen. *sigh*

Hell, I'd be happy if Northern and Southern California would split into two states. Y'all SoCalers can keep Ahnuld.

[expatben]

Spoken like a true No Cal-er
I must say as a non Californian who has been to both Southern and Northern California I certainly do notice differences.
That said I am not infavour of seperation based soley on cultural differences. Pakistan I support because it became clear Pakistan and India became too different and violence was happening. However I am NOT in favour of Quebec seperation we are all Canadians and though provinces are different that is no reason to just seperate if it were Toronto would be its own country.
XPat

[space virgin]

I think Western Washington should be absorbed into British Columbia.

[Somnambulation]

Yes, California should be split at the Kern county line. If those so calers want our water they should pay for it.

[worldwidemike]

Originally posted by LiveFreeorDie@Oct 27 2005, 07:30 AM
The issue is not historical ownership of territory, it is about people's rights to choose their leaders, make their own laws, form their own government through a democratic process.* The Taiwanese people consider themselves first and formost Chinese.* I think they will play a waiting game until the authoritarian regime in China eventually goes out with a wimper.* There will be re-unification...eventually.* I give them 10 years.

[snapback]83207[/snapback]

Good points. I agree that Taiwan is more than willing to "not rock the boat." And that they'd also likely be willing to reunify their economy with that massive customer base once authoritarian rule is gone...I hadn't thought of it that way, before.

worldwidemike

[expatben]

I agree and I am for an independent Taiwan because that seems to be what the Taiwanese people want.

[Rozza]

just out of interest, would any one describe themselves as a reformist/ revoloutionary leftist?

[Sijuki]

Originally posted by Rozza@Nov 1 2005, 07:38 PM
just out of interest, would any one describe themselves as a reformist/ revoloutionary leftist?

[snapback]84007[/snapback]

While I would not describe myself as a revolutionary, I do always maintain that if my gov't failed to do its job properly it is my right as a citizen to overthrow my gov't and reinstate one that shares the views of the people. Will this time come in the U.S.? Possibly. Will it be during my life? I hope not.

But as Voyd pointed out with the large size of the U.S. and its populations complacency with politics it is a real fear that has been with me since I was in high school. Not that we will break out into another civil war per se, but a beginning of breakdown of communitcations. We have large areas of our country that are populated by like minded people. What would it take for there to be a huge amount of friction as in the mid 1800's with slavery?


...and as for the states seceding, it was merely a question to the thought that if a country was annexed it should reserve the right to secede later. Not saying that we should have a massive run to form our own independent countries.

[Joker]

Sij-

Without calling in the "South Will Rise Again" crowd, one of the major factors behind the secession of the Southern states was not necessarily slavery (though it was the major issue to catalyze) was the authority of the Federal Govn't versus the States. Essentially the argument was that anything that is not expressed specifically within the Constitution as law is left to the individual states to determine as they see fit for their respective citizenry. In the case of the slavery issue, since it wasn't specifically named as being illegal by the COTUS, the states felt it was their own to determine. Forget about ethics and morals for a minute regarding slavery, and it is a valid issue. This is a strict interpretation of the COTUS, but remains a valid concern.

To this point, there have been many transgressions against the individual states by the Feds. For instance: implementation of the national speed limit at 55MPH, and restricting drinking ages to 21. The Feds legally could not establish a law that states 55MPH is the official national limit- it infringes upon interstate commerce and individual states' rights to govern. Same with the 21 drinking age. But, to muscle the states into toeing the line, the Feds can simply withhold federal highway funding to states that choose not to play by their rules. (which was in fact done, and though is a form of extortion, its mostly legal extortion.)

It wasnt until the Congress repealed the conditions of federal highway funding that states were able to adjust their highway speed limits to above 55MPH without fear of loss of revenue from the Feds.

Little by little over the years, the Feds have learned how to restrict and withold certain things to make the state's play ball. National drug policy believe it or not is another valid example. Though the majority of Americans seemingly go along with the crowd here, its still a part of it. There's tons more examples. Gun control is another hot issue. Abortion, gay marriage. Every single hot button issue boils down to states rights versus federal rights.

Back to your regularly scheduled post whoring

[The Monsignor]

Way to resurrect this topic, dude!

[BigE]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rozza @ Nov 1 2005, 07:38 PM) [snapback]84007[/snapback]</div>

just out of interest, would any one describe themselves as a reformist/ revoloutionary leftist?
[/b]

I'm a revolutionary because I thiink I should be king.


Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs.
P. J. O'Rourke

[SleepIsTheCousinOfDeath]

I would probably describe myself as revolutionary left. How did I miss this thread for so long? 52% left and like 11% right wing. Probably because when you travel and realize there are different people and cultures and economic standings (very drastic in this measure) you tend to stop being a prick. I mean stop being a right winger.

[BelfastFlyer]

Hmm this is a tricky one..

I believe in gay rights, the choice of a mother to stay home and raise her child, and that the disadvantaged in life deserve all the help we can give. I also think religion shouldnt run our society and that kids can learn more from their parents when it comes to morals than in church. Plus women deserve the right to be able to choose.

BUT

I do believe that if someone attacks you, you go in and kick their ass all over the place. A strong military is complusary. A minorities rights are not more important than the majority.

So where does that put me?! Centre??